Archive for the ‘seeker-sensitive church’ Category


I know a lot of discussion has surrounded the heresy of Modalism lately due to T.D. Jakes’s star appearance on the seeker-sensitive sitcom known as the Elephant Room 2. There is another rank heresy that challenges the very nature of God which is just as bad as Modalism. Those who teach that Jesus is not the eternal Son of God are also attacking the very core nature of our Lord. The truth is that God never changes and He has existed eternally as The Father, Son and Holy Spirit three but yet One(Hebrews 13:8).

It was deeply encouraging when John MacArthur repented of his error of denying the eternal Sonship. See: Reexamining the Eternal Sonship of Christ

I personally believe denying Christ’s eternal relationship within the Trinity is as deadly as what Modalism teaches. I would encourage all my readers to ponder what I have written today.

The question that comes up many times in church meetings is how to grow the church. Hours upon hours are poured into brainstorming ways to reach the lost and ways to effectively draw people into the church. In today’s culture, the church finds itself always competing with the world’s attention grabbers! In this never ending competition, the upper hand seems to always go to the world. I’m not sure if it’s good intentions or desperation which leads many in the church to seek out better ways to lure people in to hear the Gospel. Some churches use high profile speakers to head line a church event, some use self-help topics designed to be series that target the ills of society as an outreach by inviting people to come in for help and advice, and some use books other than the Bible to inspire it’s people on various subjects as how to be a better father/mother, how to live a successful Christian life, how to lead and be lead, some even go as far to promote a life change gospel that promises to make all your problems better, etc. in hopes to compete with the world around them. In all of these new culture driven events and programs where is the art of Biblical discipleship? If the church follows modern culture, the church will grow and grow quickly. I must ask the question, “Does church growth indicate how God is blessing our ministries?” Another question I must ask, “The people being drawn in by the new church outreach programs, are they being drawn in because of someone witnessing the true Gospel to them, or where they invited to hear about a self-help topic, to experience the music service and worship, or someone to make them laugh? Is the emphasis being put on the Gospel first and foremost or is the emphasis put on the outreach program with the Gospel being down on the list?Are new converts being disciple Biblically or are they being lead to believe that church work is discipleship?

Matt 28:18-20

18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

First of all, we need to clearly define the church. The simple answer is the church is the body of believers. To be a member of the church you must be born again by the power of the Jesus Christ. The church and the preaching is for the building up of the body of Christ, therefore the church is not solely a place for those without Christ.  A big part of preaching is the Gospel and I do not dispute that fact, but the church must be used to preach on the spiritual things of God that the natural man( a person without Christ) cannot understand(1 Corinthians 2:13-15). The church needs to prepare the body of believers and teach them how to be Christ followers

The next thing we need to focus on as the body of Christ, is what did the Bible say about bringing people to the church? Should we invite our friends and family to church with us? Should be use Gospel tracks? Should we invite strangers to church? Should we witness to people when we are outside of our church? The answer to all of the above questions is “YES”. I’m afraid that many who want to spread the Gospel have not been truly taught how to be a disciple.

Here is my simply outline for church growth:

  • Grow the body of believers with the preaching of the whole council of God.
  • Encourage the body of believers in God’s grace and patiently teach them the doctrines of the faith.
  • Enable the body of believers with the Gospel by teaching them how to witness and live Godly lives that reflect the power of God in this lost world.
  • Take time with each person by addressing their questions and concerns.
  • Lead them by example.

In the above examples, I’m giving an outline to make disciples out of people to teach them how to “cast their nets” and spread the Gospel(Matthew 4:19).

What is the fading art of discipleship? What do I mean when I make this statement

When we build up the body of Christ by empowering them with the Word of God, then the power of the Gospel is truly seen when they go out into the world to witness the good news of Jesus Christ. When we rely upon the Gospel and truly disciple our fellow believers, then the Holy Spirit will use the Gospel to convict and draw people to our church. This method was used in the Bible and it is the only method that works because it is by the preaching of the Gospel that mankind is saved.

I fear that too many times we worry about how we can bring people to Christ when the answer is in the Bible that we are holding in our hands. I think instead of brainstorming about how to use relevance/culture to draw people into the church, we should focus more on teaching the children of God about our Christian culture. I think we should drop all the book studies etc. and dig deep into the Bible. I believe if we simply follow the Bible’s instructions then we will see true growth as Christians mature. We will witness the power of the Gospel as it reveals itself in their lives as they grow in Christ. I know that life changes  happen and these types of changes can be seen in almost every religion, but the difference is only the Gospel can truly change the heart of mankind. It is the power of God that we are a new creation and are born again. It’s by the preaching and spreading of the Gospel that the real only lasting power of life change happens and that is through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Let’s get back to discipleship first and focus on building up the church using only the Word of God. I would love to hear more about door to door witnessing  from the true church instead of 95% of the time when a missionary knocks on my door it is a Mormon or Jehovah Witness. As we ponder and brainstorm how to reach modern people with culture/relevance, cults like the Mormons and Jehovah Witness are tearing the streets up using an example laid out in the Word of God. These cultist know their doctrines and why, they are very good at what they do. How well do you know your faith, your doctrines, and can you back them up with the Scriptures when questioned? I don’t know about you, but it seems the Mormons and Jehovah Witness cults have one up on us in the department of discipleship. We have the truth and we need to put that truth into full practice.

Want to see real change? Then build up disciples and feed them only on the Word of God. Teach them to study, to pray, to be mindful of the Holy Spirit, lead by example, and do all in your power to help them when they are in need. In America and around the world, we need disciples who will take the Gospel out to the  highways and hedges compelling mankind to repent by spreading the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

If we promote volunteering for the church as discipleship, then we are putting the carriage in front of the horse. Discipleship is simply setting under a godly elder who nurtures us as we are taught the deeper truths of our faith. Basically we are taught how to use the armor of God and how to correctly wield the sword of the Lord which is the Word of the Most High.

I pastor friend once told me, “If you bring them in on entertainment, then you’ve got to keep them entertained. If you bring them in on the Gospel, then all you need to do is feed them with it.”

A seeker-sensitive life coach pastor is the ultimate cheerleader when it comes to uplifting those who promote his vision. He is there to push his people to volunteer, to invite people to church, and to encourage his people to be positive. He is there as the supreme spiritual leader and the example for his people to follow. He boasts constantly about the great works of his church and how lives are being changed; this is done as verbal rewards to those who faithfully $buy$ into his vision. He is completely sold out to make his vision a reality and eagerly thanks all those who have made it possible. As long as he is not questioned, he is the most positive man in the church.

When asked to use the Scriptures in context(2 Timothy 2:15) to backup his vision and methods(Acts 17:11), this same man who is so upbeat and willing to take extreme measures to reach the lost, will transform into the world’s biggest detractor of the very Word of God he proclaims to preach.

I figured it was about time to share some of the comments I receive from those in the seeker-sensitive movement. I just picked a few to share out of the hundreds I’ve received this year.

Defending Furtick:

This is a disgrace. Nobody agrees with you, at all. Pastor Furtick is serving God and doing what God has called him to do. He is changing lives because of what God is doing through him and Elevation Church. Its not a competition at all. He is a man of God, something you OBVIOUSLY are not. I’m disgusted by you, whoever you are. Find something else to do with your time, maybe pray to God for forgiveness first. It’s a good thing your video doesn’t have an affect on any of us except disappointment!

You idiot. Get a hobby

I’m just honestly disgusted by the comments left here. @buzzbbird I’m so glad that you just blatantly condemned and judged a man’s eternal destination based on a video he made that is ALL ABOUT TRYING TO CHANGE THE WORLD for Christ. Ever hear his sermons? (Coming from a Bible Major), All Cross centered, Gospel focused and usually exegetically (look it up) developed. He even did a series on SIN (“Scarecrow in a Mellon Patch”… on Podcast). Or is he condmened for using Podcasts too? 😦

I wouldn’t give a squirt of piss for anything this fundamentalist douche bag has to say.(Directed to me…such a nice person)

this church is the most legit I have ever seen! It is undeniable the work and anointing that is on this church! If you think you are better and more righteous… then go lead 22,000 people to Jesus Christ in 5 years!  Didn’t think so

He left his job, risked his financial wellbeing, and uprroted his family to start elevation church. What have you done for Jesus, lately?

Steven Furtick is an amazing man of God! Have you ever read his book or listened to his sermons? He is filled with the Holy Spirit and NOT a disgrace to God!

 Defending Perry Noble and New$pring Church:

Defending NewSpring:

 bro have you ever even been to newspring in your life? were you at the service where they talked about sexed? and how dare you take scripture out of context to make it fit something  you want.

BAMF means

get off of newsprings case for the little things that dont matter

it means go do what really matters

it says in the bible to go and make disciples of all nations

is that not what we are doing

it does not say in the bible “and the lord god said go and bash other churches, tear down their ideas, and criticize their leaders and motives”

NewSpring is one of the MOST AMAZING Churchs you will ever go ot and if you cant handle the truth and what they preach why do you judge them? All preachers are different and if thats how he gets the word out then let him and you stay out of it. If your so CHRISTIAN Why do you judge people?

It’s sad that we would spend more time judging Men of God based on “traditional” church. The method my change, but Gods work will stay true forever. No one is perfect. So, why don’t we make videos that will bring someone to Christ. Non-Christians see stuff like this and this is why they don’t go to church. Christians shouldn’t be like this. God is the final judge and his judgement is all that matters! God bless. Let’s lift Perry up and let God show him any corrections he needs to make

you people are well on your way to hell! anyboby who has the time to post something like this is gonna get a one way ticket.unless you attend newsprings you wouldnt know anything about it!

Dremias5545 right now I’m praying for you. I pray for God to do a work in your heart. I pray that you would never ever post another video like that (the newspring one) because you are confusing people in their faith with Christ and that is scary place my friend.

watched your video about newspring & how they say every dime goes to missions. You’re an idiot. thx.

you’re ridiculous

dude, you’re videos bashing perry noble are ridiculous. he is not a hireling. he is not greedy. just today he preached a sermon about tithing and offering. the bible makes many references on giving and not just giving anything, but giving your best. perry also went further, even though he was in no way obligated to do so, he stated that he GAVE his best and offerings to the church as well. these “group sessions” that he charges pastors to attend would might be an issue, except for the fact that perry gives ALL of that money to NewSpring. perry has also made $80,000 in the past three years from “outside” speaking, ALL OF WHICH WAS GIVEN TO NEWSPRING. perry is also getting ready to sign his first book deal, and guess where ALL of the profits from that book selling are going to go? you guessed it, its ALL going to newspring. listen man, as long as perry is preaching the word of the lord, giving his ten percent in tithing, AND going above and beyond and giving offerings, it shouldn’t matter how much he makes. children of the lord deserve to be blessed. if GOD wanted, he could take EVERYTHING from perry. when you tithe, you arent giving to the church. you are giving back to Christ through the church.

now with that being said, HOW MUCH DO YOU GIVE? do you give your mandatory ten percent that God has commanded you to give? do you go above that and give offerings? HOW MUCH MONEY DO YOU MAKE? if you think that is none of my business, what makes you think that perry’s salary is any of your business? if you aren’t giving your ABSOLUTE BEST to the body of Christ, then you definitely need to spend more time focusing on that rather than creating these videos about how much money perry noble makes. football coaches make more money than perry. come on man…i do realize that there are many pastors who are money hungry, but perry is not one of those men.

Words of warning from seeker-sensitives:

You are not advancing the kingdom, you are dividing it. Please do not post hate speech about a prosperous ministry because you believe “preachers should be poor.” It’s religious thinking, its divisive, and it can send a person teetering on the edge of “do I want to try Jesus or not” to simply say no and move on in their lives continuing in defeat. I challenge you to use your abilities to create video’s and make some that lift of the name of Jesus, and not tear down leaders that are doing something for the kingdom. You cant argue with results. If you disagree with someone, pray for them. Its not your responsibility to be their judge and jury on a public forum like youtube! Thats the worlds mindset! Lets point the splinter so no one see’s our plank. I will pray for you that God softens your heart to the needs of his church and a dying world that needs the gospel preached to them.

Your comment about Perry Noble

Did it ever occur to you that maybe the reason why they charge $100 a person is because the people that attend that conference get materials and resources to use and their own church? About a month ago over 900 people got baptized and during our easter series alone over 1000 peopl accepted christ. We are changing lives…you are trying to ruin them….Plus, read the old testament…prime example of why you wouldn’t want to mess with God’s appointed.

Your videos


As I look over your videos, it is clear to me that you either struggle from an enormous amount of jealousy, or you have no biblical understanding. for you to critique Steven Furtick and Perry Noble is kind of like a middle school all star critiquing Michael Jordan. How can you justify posting videos about men when you have no idea what you are talking about? When you have accomplished a fraction of what these men have, you may at least not look quite so ignorant in your zeal. But it will be no more biblical. Oppose those who oppose Christ. Leave other Christians alone.

stop trying to be all formal about everything

in closing

shut up and quit being a pharisee

newspring church member


see its annoying and unnecessary isnt it?




What’s really sad is how these people are deceived by Perry Noble and Steven Furtick. The fruits of Noble and Furtick are sour to the core.-David J

Matthew 7:15-18 (NASB)

A Tree and Its Fruit

15 “Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? 17 So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.

Ever wonder what gives seeker-sensitive pastors nightmares? The answer is found in:

Acts 17:11 (NIV)

11 Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

This will keep even the most “hip and cool” life coach CEO pastor awake at night! Yes, Acts 17:11 will keep your ever so eager to fleece and beat the sheep pastor up at night. The last thing these relevant life coaches want is for someone to threaten their “divine” vision from God by actually checking God’s Word to see if that “vision”  is true. A Berean is far worse than Freddy Krueger to these guys!

Barren Fig Tree;
O R,
The Doom and Downfall of the Fruitless Professor:
Showing, that the day of grace may be past with him long before
his life is ended.
The signs also by which such miserable mortals may be known.

‘Who being dead, yet speaketh.’—Hebrews 11:4

By J O H N.B U N Y A N.

L O N D O N,
Printed for J. Robinson, at the Golden Lion,
in St. Paul’s Churchyard, 1688.



At the beginning of this chapter we read how some of the Jews came to Jesus Christ, to tell him of the cruelty of Pontius Pilate, in mingling the blood of the Galileans with their sacrifices. A heathenish and prodigious act; for therein he showed, not only his malice against the Jewish nation, but also against their worship, and consequently their God. An action, I say, not only heathenish, but prodigious also; for the Lord Jesus, paraphrasing upon this fact of his, teacheth the Jews, that without repentance ‘they should all likewise perish.’ ‘Likewise,’ that is by the hand and rage of the Roman empire. Neither should they be more able to avoid the stroke, than were those eighteen upon whom the tower of Siloam fell, and slew them (Luke 13:1-5). The fulfilling of which prophecy, for their hardness of heart, and impenitency, was in the days of Titus, son of Vespasian, about forty years after the death of Christ. Then, I say, were these Jews, and their city, both environed round on every side, wherein both they and it, to amazement, were miserably overthrown. God gave them sword and famine, pestilence and blood, for their outrage against the Son of his love. So wrath ‘came upon them to the uttermost’ (1 Thess 2:16).[2]

Now, to prevent their old and foolish salvo, which they always had in readiness against such prophecies and denunciations of judgment, the Lord Jesus presents them with this parable, in which he emphatically shows them that their cry of being the temple of the Lord, and of their being the children of Abraham, &c., and their being the church of God, would not stand them in any stead. As who should say, It may be you think to help yourselves against this my prophecy of your utter and unavoidable overthrow, by the interest which you have in your outward privileges. But all these will fail you; for what think you? ‘A certain man had a fig-tree planted in his vineyard, and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.’ This is your case! The Jewish land is God’s vineyard; I know it; and I know also, that you are the fig-trees. But behold, there wanteth the main thing, fruit; for the sake, and in expectation of which, he set this vineyard with trees. Now, seeing the fruit is not found amongst you, the fruit, I say, for the sake of which he did at first plant this vineyard, what remains but that in justice he command to cut you down as those that cumber the ground, that he may plant himself another vineyard? ‘Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig-tree, and find none; cut it down, why cumbereth it the ground?’ This therefore must be your end, although you are planted in the garden of God; for the barrenness and unfruitfulness of your hearts and lives you must be cut off, yea, rooted up, and cast out of the vineyard.

In parables there are two things to be taken notice of, and to be inquired into of them that read. First, The metaphors made use of. Second, The doctrine or mysteries couched under such metaphors.(Read the whole work here)